AWAKE | Joel aan ‘t Goor & Christian Kromme
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Welcome to this eye-opening episode where I dive deep with Christian Kromme, a global futurist who reveals the seven transformative waves of technology and how they are shaping not just our tools, but our very humanity. Together, we explore how these waves—from biology to artificial intelligence and beyond—are pushing us toward a higher level of consciousness and new ways of organizing society. This isn’t just a story about technology; it’s about a spiritual revolution that challenges the way we live, work, and connect. Join us as we unpack this fascinating journey toward a future where technology amplifies our purpose and transforms our collective destiny.
00:00 – 00:47 Introduction & Christian Kromme’s background and mission
00:48 – 02:35 The discovery of the seven waves based on biology and technology
02:36 – 05:40 Biological waves explained: communication, nervous systems, automation, and social brains
05:41 – 07:16 Transition from biological evolution to technological waves: Agricultural to Telecom revolution
07:17 – 09:24 Recent technological waves: automation, social media, artificial intelligence
09:25 – 11:04 The upcoming seventh wave and the future of global collaboration
11:05 – 14:23 The butterfly metaphor: transformation from current systems to new organizational structures
14:24 – 17:08 Leadership, disruption, and the challenges of transformation
17:09 – 20:07 Purpose-driven life and the role of technology in personal and societal evolution
20:08 – 23:37 The vision beyond Earth: technology and humanity’s cosmic future
23:38 – 25:27 The balance of visionary thinking and present action: a call for presence and change
I had a very interesting conversation with Christian Kromme the futurist who speaks all over the world he shared with me the seven waves of technology and how they will make us more human so Christian what is it did you actually do how would you describe yourself oh well I do love stinks I meant to premiere I’m investor I speak a lot I’m a public speaker keynote speaker um I’m a filmmaker and author so basically I do all kind of things that I really like but all focused on one thing and that’s creating a specific way of
level of consciousness within organizations and to raise the level of consciousness so that we going into a different direction as we are going right now with our society so this is my main focus and I wrote a book about it and I couldn’t be working on a movie because people consume a movie in a different way than a book it’s much more easy to consume the information so um I hope that with using the video I can use or reach a wider audience eventually 1 billion so 1 billion people is my end goal so if I reach that amount
of people then I’m done the story that bring basically a couple of years ago I discovered during the search to my daughter’s health she was very sick and we needed to find a different kind of cure because the hospital’s couldn’t help her anymore she had a terminal diagnosis so I started my own journey my own quest and Luke started looking more holistic way and what I found out is that if we look more closely to our body we are a community of trillions of cells working together in harmony in a very
coherent way and by researching the body in a more and in different from a different perspective I found out that if you look back in the evolution of biological organisms is that organisms with biological systems evolved in a specific way and I find out that they go through seven disruptive waves so individual cells within cell communities use biological systems to build organisms and they do that in seven pictures of the waves and what I found out is that currently today we human being sapiens are going through
the same process but now it’s not cells using biology to build organisms it’s now us or sapiens using technological systems to build organizations and from that angle I present a view into the future or window into the future and I explain where based on these waves technology is going and where society is going and what will the impacts on individuals on organizations on our jobs on the products that we build the services etc so it’s more from from a corporate form of technological angle but basically
it’s about raising the level of consciousness within organizations so helping these organizations from one wave to the other and evolve to a more holistic form of appreciation like a swarm of birds well the seven waves I will start with biology that makes more clear for technology the first wave was about 1 billion years ago individual cells start to communicate with each other start to share information in a very rudimentary form and it helped them to collect in larger groups communities and when these communities grow they
encountered all kind of problems and the first wave is all about communication and you start together in coral like structures bone like structures and that make them keep them safe from from the environment but also help them to filter food from the environment after a while they grow bigger and bigger and they needed some kind of infrastructure so they start to develop a digestive system a vascular system to bring the nutrients and and energy in building blocks from the outside world to the inside ropes
within the community to serve all the individual cells and empower them with energy after a while this colonization became even more complex and they start to develop nervous systems senses to become more aware of the environment so they increase the survival rate in that way and the fourth wave is all about automation because of a certain level is over became so big and so complex there’s so much information going over these news networks that they needed some kind of CPU an operating system to automate all
the internal processes that’s the reptile brain which is automating all the processes in your body if you wake up your heart is already beating your body is 27 degrees Celsius everything works the fifth wave was all about a limbic brain or the mammal brain the social brain and its help organisms to remember situations environments behavior but also other animals so they become more social and they could learn from previous behavior but also learn from other organisms so they could learn and evolve even faster
and the sixth wave was all about the neocortex brain which is the ability to learn and adapt in real time to solve bigger problems to create tools for ourselves fire weapons and stuff now finally in the prefrontal cortex is the latest biological upgrade and it helped organize these organisms to develop language but also to visualize things that are not yet there or understand conceptual things like the state or religion or companies which are all conceptual ideas so and by having the ability to have language or communicate
with each other organisms enter the first wave of the next seven waves it’s like music you have an appetizer New York SAFE so the first wave was the Agricultural Revolution where people start to share ideas concepts start to develop villages stone like structures that keep them safe from the environment but it also helped them to filter food from the environment more efficiently by having kettle hour or creating a large fields of vegetables and fruits and cetera after while the communities became bigger and bigger and they needed
some kind of solid infrastructure so in the Industrial Revolution they start to develop industries so the the digestive system but also a vascular system so with raw materials they created iron for railroads oil pipelines and eventually the energy grid and the funny thing is in my presentations you can see it is that the visual structures of the organisms how they solve the problem and how we are solving a problem are basically the same then on top of each other so when we basically offended electricity we end up
the next wave about Telecom so we started to send messages over long distance using Telegraph radio television we started to develop sensors like the microphone to create radio a camera have to create television and stuff and eventually the Internet as we know it today after a while there was so much information flowing over these networks our organizations became bigger and bigger so we needed some kind of automation so in the 50s 60s companies like IBM started to develop the reptile brain for organizations which is the CPU
the computer operating system software routines that help do people so far routines multiple times after after Allah and then we entered the sixth wave yeah yeah it’s rife also in biology is it’s it’s cutting in health at the time and the impact is twice as high because each wave is a platform which helps to launch the next wave so the first wave was about twelve thousand years agricultural revolution Industrial Revolution four hundred years Telecom was about I think 60 years or so automation wave was about 30 years and
the social media wave which we have just come out of started in 1998 and it’s I think in nineteen twenty two thousand twelve eighteen and that was basically the limit brain of our society so we started to share information store information on online websites photographs videos all kind of information and it helped us with big data analytics to analyze behavior from the Bauhaus but also from each other to learn to become more show show and to start to collaborate in a much bigger skill and today I think last year we
entered the sixth wave and it’s the equivalent of the new cortex brain which is AI artificial intelligence in the cloud machine learning deep learning smarts chips algorithms that help us to learn and adapt in real time and also to solve problems which are much more complex than we can solve today and finally ten years from now I think we will enter the seventh wave let’s get exciting and the seventh wave is all about like the prefrontal cortex it’s like visualizing things that aren’t yet there so
augmented reality mixed reality today there are very ugly devices but I think in the future there will be very tiny and designed like devices that help us to see virtual things in our reality so on blended reality so we can have a conversation with like like we have today with someone in Australia and you’re not sitting in the same room but you experience it because it’s so photorealistic that you yea are in the same room and have a very human experience and I think that will blend all the the structures that we have
today organizations are people in a building working together but we will go to new kind of organisations where people can collaborate on on a global skill I can translate already 40 50 languages in real time so languages will not be a bottleneck anymore distance time space all these things will become irrelevant if you’re going into the 7 wave what I also discovered is that with each wave our organisations grow with tenfold so in the first villages were three or four hundred people managed by one big chief the next wave Industrial
wave was about four thousand people so Henry Ford was already very happy when he was able to manage three or four thousand people in their factories at the third wave AT&T these kind of big telecom companies managed 40,000 people which is already quite complex IBM 400,000 people and today we have companies like uber which are managing almost four million people in real time using smart algorithms and based on my model and my predictions I think the next wave will be about organizations of 40 million people working together and
in the seventh wave 400 million people working together so we will not have separate entities any more organizations will blend into society you can do multiple things during the day which are related to what you really are what you like and you can use technology to project it your real self into the world and then share and collaborate with other people so I think therefore we we are if we like it or not will be pushed towards a different time where we will not operate from from the ego from mimimi gathering money and stuff but
made from ecosystem so collab collaborating with other people using blockchain technology to do trusted transactions with people you have never seen before all these kind of things so I believe that the technology will pushes towards a new era where I think you can call it a spiritual revolution where the environment is not that interesting anymore but it’s going about the inside world of the outside world in them and therefore I believe that that’s things like purpose being aligned with yourself but your environments becomes
more and more important and today it’s a luxury to have a purpose through purposeful work but in the future I think it will be a necessary to do I believe the technology is a mirror and an amplifier it will reflect what’s on our inside so if you have nothing inside if you don’t have a mission you don’t have a vision or creativity there’s nothing to amplify there’s nothing to mirror and I think the people without a purpose or people were which are focused on hard skills which is 80% of our current economy will soon be
outperformed by machines which will be a thousand or a million times cheaper more efficient and faster so in that way I think it’s it’s a necessary to go to the next level and to develop a strong sense of purpose to have a machine in your life and to use technology to leverage technology to reach for example billion or a million people or a hundred people it doesn’t matter so I think therefore it’s over also the way to create happiness on the long term today we have a consumer consumption Society so you
buy stuff you’re happy for a while and then you’re dissatisfied so you need to buy something else but I think if you do what you really like what you want to do while you’re here for you create happiness over long term because you can be will truly are the authentic genui itself I think that’s very important and that technology will push us there so I don’t think we have a choice I really think are we doing now and comes to living a purposeful life you know get society and when you look at leadership
in organizations how are we doing pretty bad I think yeah most of the time I use the analogy with nature so if you have a caterpillar in the last days of his life he’s eating 200 times his own weight he becomes fatter and fatter and that’s basically the environment that we live in today the government’s the banks the big corporations they are creating profits more and more but at a certain time its structure starts to become more solid it’s becoming a cocoon and the inside becomes fluid so all the cells
become a nutrition soup for for creating something different and I think that’s happening today the old system the caterpillar and the butterfly are living or are there at the same time they coexist at the same time so it’s a very messy world and at a certain time this nutrition soup should transform to the to the butterfly and therefore you need imaginary cells and imaginary cells are single-celled organisms we needed a soup which are like the leaders visionary leaders of today which are developing
the same language that resonate with each other start with health networks and after a while with exponential speed all the other cells in the super to start to transform to the DNA of the butterfly and the blue flies there so I think the the future economy will be like the butterfly like like nature but now we are still in the the end periods of the caterpillar entering the cocoon period which is a very messy world brexit shrimp you see all kind of strange things so our world basically is already liquefying on a government level
but also on an organizational level many people become a freelancer or self-employed so you already see that it is liquefying and new structures are already there in platforms but they should grow faster and that’s also I think the tipping point the platform should be there if they are not there we fall back go back to start like mono/poly so we can take the wrong direction somewhere I think yeah if the people who should follow their purpose right now to to be d8 imaginary cells don’t are not purposeful and the
structure is not the new structure is not built then we can fall back I think and it happened many times before but it will become difficult more difficult now but we are in a very critical time right now because if there is not enough imaginary cells which can inspire the all the other cells in that cocoon it will die because it’s not animal anymore it’s a soup of cells so there’s no structure anymore so it will be closed there’s no way back yeah but at the other end if we should be thankful to
governments and large organizations because they these are the caterpillars don’t stop me caterpillars if you want to have butterflies so we should be thankful that they brought us here but they won’t bring us there so we need new structures new leaders new leadership new mindset full of purpose to get to the next stage and we are already gone through the tipping point on the technology level Automation was the middle wave so now we are going into an opposite direction more more fluid more holistic but it’s important that more
people more more people are affected or injected with this beautiful virus and it goes exponentially fast I’m very optimistic yeah but there are some struggles I had I think it won’t be flawless or smooth right I think there will be a huge disruption on a government level on a healthcare level education every big industry will be disrupted it’s already happening right now but I think we ain’t seen nothing yet I think it’s gonna be a 10 or 100 fault worse than today and that’s not bad for individuals but bad for large
organizations who wants to keep themselves alive we should transform to the butterfly but you don’t want to stay in that caterpillar shape and that’s I think the biggest struggle struggle so big organizations want to transform but basically they don’t want they have to thing because it’s a painful process it’s not fluid so I think that’s that’s a current problem and the caterpillar wants to save itself preventing going into the cocoon state but it’s already doing it automatically we see it everywhere society is becoming
more static the rules that we have governments and organizations become more static and people want to go break loose again and we need to create a spark to make that happen that’s I see that’s that’s my purpose my personal purpose I really enjoy clarity in your vision thank you thing now but basically it’s just like nature it’s it’s very simple but if you see the whole picture it becomes all very clearly and then that’s why I want to create a movie because book is it’s a textual it’s it’s cognitive but if you
see movie in the right music then it start to resonate on a different level you can feel it and I think that’s that’s more important with these kind of messages and that’s also why I do love keynotes because I think that’s a way to inspire but also transform people and afterwards a lot of people say to me wow I equip my job at the big big corporate and I started my own business doing transformative coaching or whatever so it’s it’s it’s happening already but it’s not fast enough I feel it if when
I’m not in my head if I’m in a push Mouse so I want to push things into the world then I’m I’m here and sometimes it’s okay to do things do to manifest things but I think if you really want to be aligned with yourself you have to be in in your body in the hair now be present so I meditate to do you all these kind of things and I do things which are feeling right at that moment in time and I think that this purpose is not a destination or a point on the horizon it’s being aligned with nature with the collective and
being yourself being present is I think the best the shortest way to get there and that’s why we also try bit with a platform to currently people are basically in our heads so people are educated to to be cognitive and we are educated to be motivated extrinsically money pension whatever but I think we should shift to a different form where people aren’t motivated intrinsically and now you don’t care about money anyway because if you follow your purpose money comes automatically your value or whatever to say life so I think
that’s the easiest way to get people to extract people from the current system into a new system make them purposeful and being aware of the purpose because it’s quite a journey you cannot say to someone okay this is level 7 go there no you should teach them to go one step ahead and bring them to next another level of consciousness so it’s a very hard process but I think technology like AI download dialog technology like AI can help us to make coaching on purpose level more available on an individual level that’s also why I
think that the next big companies that surpass Google and these kind of organizations will be educational companies or focusing on welfare or well-being it’s the top of the pyramid most of so so being present being in here and now I think it’s the quickest way together but our entire society is not focused on that you should be here and you should be a doctor or a lawyer which are the professions with the highest rate of people who are medically depressed so yeah it’s a strain society we live in today
so pretty soon boo people people leave the seventh wave behind this yeah yeah yeah I think like all the other octaves recently I found some research from Arthur M Young is the founder of the inventor of the Bell Helicopter so it’s a it’s oftenly cult in the same sentence with Albert Einstein etc and what he did is he discovered also these seven waves but on a cellular level on a molecular level on an atom level on a nuclear level on a light level and he made a matrix and my research is complementing
his research and if you put it in a matrix then you can see correlations and patterns and I think if what we are going to today is towards a world where we live in a coherent way just like all the cells in our body live in a coherent way and if we reach that state then we can and will be able to create technology to go to the next planet which I’ll miss and Jeff Bezos are already doing with Spacek sand then Blue Origin so they go to Mars and other planets so I think 10 years or 20 years from now we will develop technology
which we cannot imagine right now because machines will be a thousand times more intelligent than we have right now so we will create vessels that can help us to go to other planets and start to populated the planet so we start again with one single sphere which is okay and then we go to the next year and then we start to enter the first wave again which is a communication between those planets then create the infrastructure then create an Information Network then automate things so I think we will go from the planet –
perhaps our solar system and the next wave after that the next seven months after that will be perhaps are a bigger part of the firm of space so I think that that we won’t be so passed by smart robots or so I think technology is oh it’s an empty vessel it’s only a reflection of us so we needed to reach the next level but it won’t be the machines that surpass us and go forward and we all died or something I think it’s it’s we needed to reach that level and then we are free in that sense and after we conquered our own galaxy
DeVoe entered the multiverse perhaps I think but also like if you III truly believe that technology in the end will be holographic will be basically everything as light if you go back to the pieces of an atom you go to photons and stuff so when technology also reaches that level and you’re already building chips and data transfer with quantum computers and stuff so then we reach a level I think that we can manipulate matter and living things which is like consciousness already doing right now but then we start to
control the process so in that sense we become creators or godlike entities so yeah I think that we will reach that stage sooner than then we expect people in in Silicon Valley they call it a singularity or one specific point in time when the robots will take over but I think then the humans will take over the real humans which is which we have still have to discover so I have a different opinion but I’m protec I like technology and I think it will help us but it’s not a goal on its own and it’s
only facilitating us to become is going to slow way too slow so that’s a bit frustrating for me it’s also my journey to stay in the moment and stay here in here and now to solve problems now because in my mind I’m already in 2020 or 30 in a world which is more good that’s my job yeah to think about it but also to get back to here and because I’m very comfortable there but to stay here and make a difference here and now and it’s that’s my really my challenge because I’m there again and I have to
get back and be present and makes a change here so awesome