[Music] I’m about to take a train from Amsterdam to Frankfurt Germany and then Frankfurt I will be interviewing Howard Martin Howard is actually another German he’s an American guy he’s one of the leaders of the hard math Institute and hard math has been doing research to the intelligence of the arts for more than 25 years now really curious do today looking forward to this very inviting [Music] nice to meet you nice to meet you thanks for coming it’s my pleasure I was wondering because I think you’ve

been traveling the world for over 25 years now telling the Hartnett story do you ever get tired of it what keeps you running keeps me running is that you know I feel a strong mission to do what I can is one man to help create a more heart connected world and yeah physically sometimes I get tired but my spirit never gets tired yeah and I enjoy having the opportunity really to be with people to meet new people and to you know to share what I can to make their lives better and there was your mission

to create a more heart connected world or where does it come from well I think it comes from a long time you’ve been doing this long time it comes from first of all you working on myself to be a better person as as I grew I realized that growing was good but cheering had to be there too you know if you had anything worth sharing that you should and that you should try to use whatever you learned to make life better for other people and so it was born really from development moment heart which developed another desire

born from care to see what I could do to to make things easier for others so you always always had that diverse well not always I mean we hugga through our time breeds and transitions I mean early part of my life probably up till the time I was a little older than you I was a rock musician already you know it was a very narcissistic existence you know I didn’t know this yeah that’s what I did and so you know it’s about you yeah you can play games and rationalize that it isn’t but at the end of the day it’s

about you and so in those days you know I’m sure I had an interest in the well-being of others but certainly not to the degree that is manifested today so what created a transformation in your life then what created the transformation well again it was a first of all an interest you know in my early life became trendy in those days to get involved in some personal growth process of some kind knew how to read the books and read the stories and be inspired by them and you know became you know a strong interest you know how can I learn

more how can I grow more that kind of expand my own consciousness how can I learn to better you know regulate my own emotions and those things became you know an interest that I had and so in the pursuit of that after a while it takes hold it begins to grow in you you know and then it begins to be the stronger momentum in your life rather than something that you just do on the side right it takes that build process very gradually yeah Hardman that I’ve been a part of it since its inception there almost thirty

years ago but there was a lot of time before that right that even led to horror man so when I add it all up it’s like 40 or 50 years this some of the questions that I get like this in the interviews are hard to answer because going back that far it’s difficult even remember you know how you were as a person you talk a lot about what is it we think about the qualities associated with heart the relate to leadership really like more courage more dignity more honor honesty certainly care and compassion to me those are the kind of

qualities that people want in their leaders they want to be led by people that manifest those things so part intelligences but physiological and psychological it really is about the manifestation of intuition and in a practical sense so the qualities of heart can be shared in ordinary living why are those aspects nothing the mind within the heart well I think they all relate mine and Horner and they all work together you know I think through our research we’ve shown that the heart even at the physical

level is more than just a cardiovascular organ it’s an information processing center in our bodies it sends information to the brain to the rest of the system and that information is critical information brain function is critically dependent upon signals coming from the heart so you can tie the physical heart and what it actually does to the metaphor of heart you know those type of qualities my experience is that hard intelligence gives birth to those type of emotional qualities where’s appreciation coming from where

does care come from you know yeah it manifests in the mind but what’s the impetus where does it start you know to me it starts at heart well that requires morning tea for starters and learning to respect it not to see it as something just soft or sentimental or or weak that’s where our science comes in it helps to build that bridge to make make heart not just philosophical but empirical and then once you have that respect you know to start to learn to sort of listen to that part of yourself you know we all have had times in her

life when we’ve had the sort of the whisper of our own intuition about I should be doing this I shouldn’t be doing that you know it’s like you learn to become more sensitive to that into that type of information that you’re receiving and as you act on that over time you start to see that hey you acting on that turned out to be good you know not acting on it turned out to be not so good yeah so you build the trust as you go step by step and respect for the hardest first listening to it a second and then demonstrating it is

third you know and seeing what you can do to put out hard not just to listen to it but how do you give it and and then getting the feedback from life about what happens in life as you get in the work that you do the the word heart coherence is at the center of it right yeah can you explain a bit about this but what does what does it mean yeah heart coherence is a physiological and psychological state very measurable one at the physiological level what happens is that all the major body systems begin

to synchronize to an organized rhythmic beating pattern of the heart so the heart axes sort of a master controller and all the systems go to sync up with it that means respiration digestion immune system response hormonal response brain function they all sync up and when you’re in that state year and a half performance state it’s calm and balanced but it’s not a sleepytime state it’s very active it’s very engaged that’s why I can be taught in the military or to athletes you know it’s because it’s an

active state where you’re much more aware of your environment you’re more sensitive but what’s going on around you and in you in that state and it’s healthy it’s a very healthy state when you’re in the state of higher coherence the psychological part is interesting it coherence is naturally triggered when we were experiencing regenerative uplifting emotions like the ones associated with heart when we’re with someone we love or when we’re playing with a child or a grandchild or our pet you know we would

naturally go more towards coherence when we consciously do it we make the effort and intention – now I’m going to shift the emotion now I’m going to be more appreciative rather than complaining where I’m going to be more caring and understanding rather than judgmental it creates another level of coherence once you’re in that state what happens is cool those type of emotions start to flow yeah so the appreciation that you had to push to get now becomes easy yeah yeah it says a flowing state of regenerative

emotions accompanied by a highly efficient physiological state and so it’s really a high performance state on multiple levels and we train people how to become more coherent and we measure it and we were able to show internal coherence and what it looks like and it’s part of what we bring to everything that we do and when you’re more coherent or more healthy more healthy more clarity yeah post idle it certainly affects brain function you will make better decisions in high coherence yeah do we make good decisions when we’re angry and

frustrated no we don’t so it does it does lead to another level of refined discrimination we can see into things with more nuance and therefore we’re able to understand the better and make better decisions you know so yeah it’s healthy it’s it’s you feel better happier you also make better decisions and I think just as importantly it creates more connection with others you’re able to really connect with other people in a different way because in a way you’re connecting with yourself first so that’s well said

yeah so if your leader you you know you want to connect with people I think leadership from a distance doesn’t work very well today it needs to be a connected leadership people are gonna follow you if they feel that you are a person that cares about them and their well-being I believe that people need to know that you care about them before they care about knowing what you have to say yeah yeah so if you can create that karien connection with the people that you are leading it leads to loyalty it

leads to inspiration it leads to higher productivity because they want to do what the leader is saying as opposed to doing it because they have to yeah if you make this practical what would you advise to the leaders to start doing to become more coherent well here’s one of the things that I do I always try to have demonstrated more appreciation than I have for decisions if I’ve appreciated someone I’m waiting for the things that I’ve seen them do and honor them for that then when it then won’t if there

becomes a time when I have to say we need to talk about this because there’s some changes that I’m needing to ask you to make or you didn’t do as well with that and I need you to do better you’re better than that if I’ve already got a lot of appreciation in the bank account in the relationship bank account it’s much easier for that because they know that I appreciate them they know that I care they know that I’m not just being critical and not authentic as well authentic yeah and I think there’s a

balance in all of it I mean I can care about a lot of things and I do care about my people but there’s a line you can cross as well to where that care can can affect how you take action we call that over care you know when you’re over caring about something you know let’s say you know you need to determinate employee and it’s the best thing for what needs to happen in the business but you also know about their personal life and they’re having struggles well that over care can prevent you from doing

what’s necessary so there’s a higher care you can go to to where you’re seeing it from the larger angle view but I can’t you can’t emphasize enough the need for leaders to care and especially you have compassion compassion is just really recognizing where someone else may be the natural tendencies judgment to judge them but when you lead with compassion it opens the door for all kinds of communication and understanding so appreciation in the bank account care without ever care and really trying to

put compassion in front of your actions or three things that I would suggest the leaders how can you as a as a leader or entrepreneur how can you make your organization or your team working more in flow together how can you create a coherent team possible well we start all over meetings practicing a heart math technique we try to set the tone or the energetic field environment of that meeting upfront we address conflict quickly we try to make sure that things don’t stay in the undercurrent of things

so you know when things aren’t addressed closer to the moment they stack up and they developed what we call histories and so people develop these histories with each other you know we also try to encourage each other to begin to see each other from the changes they we’ve made not from who we used to be or what we did last year or last month but you know trying to see the person more of how they are now you know so eliminate some of the separation and all that another thing that’s important for me is

that I never want to see my selves better than the other people I want to see myself is equal to what the others do so if there’s a person working in customer service or shipping or some place like that I always want to make sure that I’m feeling no more important than their I have a different role I talk I make decisions that do business but is it more important than having the product ship well you know is it more important than the customer service that someone gets when they call heart man I

don’t think it is I just think there’s different roles different skill sets and so always trying to create an equality feeling in me that I hope the employees get how do you do this or it’s an important time it becomes natural yeah how do you start creating that feeling of the club in here well I think for starters after always trying to not take myself too seriously yeah and I try to see what I do is a big deal you know that’s what I had all that extra significance to what I do Who I am and all that that’s the beginning point

and then it’s looking for qualities and others if you look through the eyes of the harm and you start to see some really cool qualities in people you know you started to see well they really do that interesting ly and then listen from me sometimes he gets into I don’t think I could do that you know I don’t think I would have handled that customer the same way yeah that was really really interesting how you handled that and then I go follows in their shoes you know I don’t know that I would have done

that you know so you starting to pick up on these things and as you do the appreciation is real it isn’t just you know I’m gonna appreciate because that’s true it then you really do appreciate them and it sort of levels things out a little bit I’m not taking myself so seriously and I’m seeing the good qualities and others and so that balances it out the end of the day you know it’s the way it is at heart math we have our lunches provided so there’s lunches available with all the employees not everybody always eats their reach

the ones they study them in you know but it’s there and what I like about that is when I eat lunch I eat lunch with anybody so I’m eating lunch with any of the boys that are there I’m sitting at the same table with them you know and I try to make that totally comfortable for them so they don’t feel like they got to be any different at lunch because I’m there and I mean I just talk about normal things about their families about their children about what movies they saw that they liked you know did they

see this last TV show episode I mean what do they think you know meanness I’m just having normal conversation with them so that they feel comfortable around me so stuff like that and the culture builds over time I mean if you start putting those things at the forefront of what you do eventually the culture sort of Mol’s itself around those principles and values so I think part man has a strong culture everybody knows is a certain way in which you should be doing business there if someone doesn’t resonate with that

generally they don’t stay no I found that people will spin out on their own yeah where they just don’t need to push them don’t need to push them right they’ll end up you know moving on themselves they’ll come to that conclusion you know because the culture is strong enough that it is that way and you know it isn’t that we have a perfect culture it isn’t that there isn’t conflict that’s all part of life but I think what people get is that you know when there is conflict we have ways of resolving it you know in our

executive management meetings we know how always agree right and there can be histories built up about that yeah and so I think a practice a good one is the least proach every situation from a more neutral perspective I don’t have to go to that meeting going I know how this is going to go I know what they’re going to say yeah oh that’s tough yeah just go in there and say this meeting can be whatever it is right and be more neutral going in and making sure that I’m in sync with me in that meeting then I’m

preparing for that meeting on the inside not just from the paperwork or the PowerPoint but you know on the inside of myself they take I focus in the heart like in this area and I breathe through this area like pretending zip the breath is flowing in and out see there and I do that in a comfortable way eyes open or eyes closed and I do it and then try to activate one of those regenerative uplifting emotions maybe it is something like appreciation well appreciate what’s my day like today the good things that

are happening to me in my life and feel that feeling not just think it would feel it and it doesn’t think about a minute you know to do that and I can do that walking from my office to the meeting room yeah and just making sure that I’m actually doing that I’m not just getting caught up in the speed of the day and I’m running from the phone call to the meeting and you know I’m not really in sync with myself some days I’m better at that than others you know but the intention and the goal is to find those pawns to check in with

me and see what am I really feeling where am i where am i right now there’s a day running me or am i running today and making that out self observation and then adjusting on the move doesn’t mean I won’t say the wrong thing doesn’t mean I won’t irritate someone but the chances of it happening or less do you think more heart connected world looks like oh gosh it’s hard to say but it’s gonna be amazing you think about a world that has more cooperation and less competition and you see that happening some in

business now I mean there’s the terms of that coopertition you know where you’re allowing for the competition but you’re trying to cooperate through it you know I think the more heart connected world will result in in business for example that is not just based only on what you can get but also what you can give so the desire to make it right for others to make it a proper business deal not to negotiate from a position of what I’m going to whatever company is going to get and that care about whether it’s a

good deal for them or not I think that stuff will start during merge more and then everybody comes out really our connected world societally will be even much more dramatically different less conflict lets discord between countries and between people certainly more acceptance you know would be a result of a hard connected world I think that will filter down and the quality of life for people I think that is one of the keys to improving health I mean when I asked a cardiologist what’s the cause of heart

disease you know the answer I expect would be people don’t exercise enough or people don’t eat right sometimes they say that but most the time they say stress that’s what’s causing the heart disease you know so if you had a heart connected world you’d have less stress that stress can lead to better health you see you see a healthier world I think the desire to try to find solutions to problems would increase and that increase would lead to finding the solution how do we make life better for the world not just for certain parts of

the world difficult to understand it seems like there is no solution to that but there’s often solutions that we just don’t see and it takes time to see them analogy I use sometimes as I asked myself a question when I asked them what is the most important discovery in the last you know two three hundred years and I realized it was electricity you could say well it’s the car it’s the it’s the internet assist me but none of that stuff would exist if they hadn’t figured out electricity yeah well electricity was around since humankind

was here it was already there is it was right around everybody but nobody saw it right and once they saw it harnessing electricity revolutionized the way everything worked the way we live you know and so the analogy for me is that what else is there to solve problems or to change things that we’re not seeing yet you know that allows me to be very hopeful that there are solutions helping to feed all the people I don’t know how we’re gonna clean up the planet with the ecological situations I don’t know you

know but somebody will figure that out you know and somebody will get that and I think it will come from them accessing more of their hearts intelligence and that’s going to be a result of living in a world that promotes that DC is changing throughout the decades how willing people are to rely on their heart I do you know we tend to focus on that the problems that we see in the world and their phone call display through the media and all we have today you can see so much right you see this all these problems at the

same time I also see a much larger movement happening where people are changing values they’re changing what they want they’re changing what they believe in they are changing how they treat each other you know I see this happening all over the planet you know you mentioned earlier I’ve been doing this for 25 years I get around you know in the world and everywhere I go see these magnificent people doing really interesting wonderful things right so start adding all that up and going you know that the larger percentage of

people is moving on and you have a big chunk that’s not you know and you have the separation this divine that’s happening but I’ve seen actually the stronger movement going this way now I’m a business visual analogy that I used sometime would be like a trend graph you know trend graph has lines a line through here and you see it other lines going up and down above it and below it now and so you can let’s say it’s sales will say this this quarters here whoops this quarter was here this course here

support here but then they’re looking at is a trend going this way or is it going this way right so the trend graph is averaging it all out and then showing where the line is moving when I look at society I see the trend graph moving in the right direction even though this horrific stuff going on yeah and the news will show that to us every day you know and so it looks like twice is happening everywhere I don’t ignore that recognize that it is true it’s real and I do have compassion for the people who

are most directly affected but when I step back from the wider angle view I see the trend graph going this way there’s just too many good people trying to do the right thing for me not to see it another way so I think we’re okay I think we’re headed in a good direction we’ve got challenges we’re going to face in business challenges were going to face in society challenge we’re gonna happen laughs but I think that the creation of a new and better world which we can call it heart connected world is inevitable

it’s going to happen whether we like it or not I agree I think what we control is the timing you know in the speed and how easy or gentle the process that’s going to be we have some control over that the inevitability of the changes is something that I believe you want to be a catalyst in the transformation yeah why not I mean what’s life about you know at the end of the day is about what you gave you know and that’s how much about what you took right and if you’re gonna live meaningful life I think it should be

about always going through a process of continuous improvement for yourself and then also completing that circuit by charing by giving something to others giving back as I was to do aspects for you over meaningful love like a compass you know years ago when I was very young I had those realizations you know I started to figure out life was about evolution it was about change about growth when I looked at nature for example I saw that nature was always changing always evolving always growing you know each generation of nature was

adapting to the environment to make it better as it went right so I thought what’s the way we are and we’re all trying to do the same thing and then you know as my heart’s intelligence began to get a little stronger I started having the other realizations about it had to be about more than me like growth for the sake of growth without some way to externalize it wasn’t gonna be fulfilling right so I get smarter I get more where I get all these things you know so what if I’m not you know connecting that with life itself and so

it became important so today I step back and a look at these things so look at am i still growing and changing and I better Howard Morton today than I was yesterday you know what have I done lately to really make a sustainable difference in the lives of others and that can be big things like giving the big talk and you know that stuff or it can be how kind of was to the service staff here you know I’m connecting with people in this hotel we don’t even speak the same language but when I see them

and they see me there’s always this little connection you know so somehow I may be helping lift their spirit a little bit you know in life so I’ve al you ate those kind of things and there’s a sort of an inner guidance compass that I’ve had for a really long time it helps me I was wondering how do you deal with the median newsfeed in your life at a certain point in time I stopped following all the news in the media because it cut my state in a lower frequency and it didn’t help me and it didn’t help the world either because I

can do anything anything with it besides you know I’m aiming for it’s a really good question there’s two ways I’ve dealt with it first of all you know I’ve gone through what you just described they’re not Blake decided not to watch it you know and I’ve actually done what I call a media fast like fasting for diet like not going to watch media for a week or two weeks and just don’t watch any of it don’t make sure the CNN site does not come on don’t watch the news and that’s helpful because it resets my

system however it also can feel like avoidance it feels like you know trying to run from something rather than and you create something yeah within the context so what I generally do have been doing this this week and uh I’ll read the headline but I don’t read the story as I go into the story I go into the drama of the story you know and so I just will read the headline and I will say you okay yes I want to know what’s going on I want to know with what’s happening in the world right here connected with reality in a way exactly

but I don’t have to buy into the entire story in all the opinions and all that so the type of news I generally don’t watch is when you have Talking Heads they’re all debating some political thing or something yeah and I just know me that you know and they all that yeah and you know in America you we had when we had our last presidential election you know that was a big shock to society when we had you know no Donald Trump elected and we knew there’s gonna be a whole lot of change and not the kind of

change that would be what I would want right but I had to go to non judgment about that and say okay I’m not going to judge this man is being wrong or evil or any of that stuff but I’m also not gonna let him run my life for the next four years I’m not gonna cut the news on every morning to find out what he did you know so I can complain to somebody about it you know I’m just not going to do that I’m just going to let it unfold and you know it’s in my hearts character the highest best outcome but I’m not

going to not gonna let him let that political situation be what dominates my consciousness yeah those little tips hopefully people get something out of the simplest one is read the headline don’t read the story right now save you a lot of energy saves you a lot of energy [Music] if you live Hartman if you ever researched if more coherent leaders are more successful with their companies yes especially in in decision-making yeah one of the things the coherence helps with its access to intuition intuition

is a field of information that’s not as logical and linear it’s sort of direct knowingness that we get and we’ve done studies where leaders have shown that many of the decisions are finally based on intuition they gather facts you know but this still the fact still won’t quite make the decision now so a term abuse for that is called informed intuition you want the facts I want the numbers I want to see this deal but at the end of the day you have to decide does it feel right yeah and I have to make these type of decisions all the

time so through that lens I mean I think the coherence training allows us to make those type of discriminating decisions better it doesn’t mean they’re all gonna work out life is life but the ratio is higher so we’ve seen that we’ve seen you know companies where people trained in heart math the amount of patents that they were able to generate there’s new ideas increased dramatically think well yeah you know the productivity goes up more patentable stuff came out of that whole thing right we saw that in a major

company I want mention names we a huge multinational company was our first major corporate account we actually won an award for the innovation that that brought to that company you know in terms of what they created the new things that they created a technic Vig giant technology company yeah so we see that kind of result and that’s kind of interesting I see it go from here to here go into patents yeah what do you like the most about what you are doing and what you’re giving the room I know you think it’s flow well I

certainly think that my own fulfillment increases as a result of dunya yes I am benefitting it’s not all just a selfless service thing my life gets better right my enjoyment of life increases you know I feel really fortunate then it’s all as I am but still have so much vitality how old are you 69 69 oh really I feel like a little kid yeah I feel like I still have the fun spirit right you know and that’s a gift that’s a serious gift you know most people have already like called it quits by the time

they’re where I am and I don’t have any intention of that my health is supporting me in that right so that’s a real gift for that so that’s a benefit it’s not answering your question directly I think what I enjoy most about at the end of the day is feeling like I did make a difference you know and sometimes I get the direct feedback because it’s I’m there in person and people tell me that with age furnish was the life changing for them and they explained that and that was it comes back around many years later you know I

may run into someone that says you know I was a I was very young when I first met you my mother was took me to a seminar and I’ve never forgotten what you told me it’s helped me so much in my life you know there’s ten years ago you mean someone who was like you know ten years old is now twenty telling me that you know that what happened ten years ago was important for them than hell their life as it is is unfolded and you go wow really you know and so you know those kind of things they sort of reinforce the the feeling that you’ve

doing is you’re doing the right thing yeah and I think that’s what’s most fulfilling to me about that but that’s all feedback stuff I think the real feedback is most fulfilling is sensing again that I I continue to grow and that life is still in a measure for me what do you feel is your next step in your growth well there’s a lot of steps I mean it’s always the refinement process around you know sorting through the games that go on inside you know how much mission versus ambition there is you know it’s easy to

talk about the mission and doing the mission but there’s also an assessment of the ambition in there it’s okay but there’s refinements that go on there like you know did I decide to do this and make this decision because it was really best for everybody or did I do it because I was interested in how I was going to come out right you know I say so still continually sort through the games in there what’s most important to me in these times is something a little different it’s learning to live life

through compassion and learning to refine what compassion is compassion isn’t always just this oh my gosh the poor thing they need my compassion it’s not fixing the broken wing on the bird you know it’s a higher level of it that allows you to to have an understanding but without being sucked into the drama of it and leading a life through compassion opens the door for so many things you know judgments a great example you know we all have judgments they always block us they always slow things down they don’t create connection

they create separation but I’ve learned that you know rather than just sing I don’t want to judge anymore I’m working on the judgments if I work on compassion the compassion takes care of the judgments you know braces out the judgments right because you don’t really feel them you’re feeling more of the the understanding and this person who’s different or doing something that you know it looks like the wrong behavior rather than going to judgment you have a sense of compassionate about that and it’s a lot more to that the compassion

is it opens a wide angle lens on life and so some of my thoughts to these times are about how do I make that more and more just a standard way of living rather than I’m here and I’m gonna be compassionate hearing the like I’m compassionate that’s what operates it that’s the operating system I don’t know how that relates directly to business and leadership but I do think that if it’s opening the door opening the wide angle lens on life that it can’t help but improve leadership yeah it can’t help but make us better more

effective leaders end of the day there’s a bottom line to that whole thing and I think I don’t think compassion takes away from that all I think it adds to our ability to create to achieve and to to provide inspired leadership yeah some of the thoughts I’ve had about business or I guess maybe in some context a little radical you know in some ways I don’t even believe in the concept of business as we see it today and I think that’s going to change and grow I don’t think business 50 years from now it’s

gonna look like business looks today yeah Vince today is based upon I have a product and a service and then I need to give it to you and you need to give me more for it than I paid for it you know so in a sense it’s like you know I’m gonna take more from me than I’m giving to you you know it’s this whole thing and then you multiply that out and then he gets into competitions between the confidence and the oh hell one company wants to hurt another company so they can gain a woman wants to be bigger than

the other or dominate the other dominate the market that’s standard business and it comes from you know it’s a dog-eat-dog world this is the way things work out you know this is the way business goes you know but I just don’t feel like that’s the future a business I feel like business can be business and the profitability can be put it you know at the forefront of what needs to be done but it only has to be because it’s driven by taking away from something else you know also thinking business the way

business is done today there’s a convincing it has to go on you’re trying to convince someone to take an action you know that’s where advertising comes in and marketing and all that and I’ve done a lot of that it’s like and so you’re really trying to convince someone to get something what if we were trying to get them to fall in love with our company first you know fall in love with what it is and what it stands for and the values that it has if they ever do that then they’re gonna want to give you that money it has to be

genuine you know there’s a trend in business called you know purpose driven marketing which is where companies begin to put their purpose at the forefront of what they do you know so they market their purpose more than they do their products well it’s been successful for some companies and so other companies have gotten onto it but then what I sometimes see is it looks like that’s still the manipulation that’s not really where they’re coming from that’s the image that they’re trying to portray so

they get the business we’re the ones that have been successful at it it’s an authentic yeah there’s a story that I read about the the apparel company Patagonia which makes our apparel jackets and stuff and they have this whole purpose of ecological sustainability and all this stuff and their founder and all that talks about that all the time and back a few years they came out with an advertisement advertising campaign that said don’t buy this jacket and it went on to say that if you if you need a jacket we have some

good ones but if you really don’t need a jacket don’t buy it because it takes a lot away from the natural resources of the planet so we’d rather you not buy the jacket because it’s going to hurt the planet yeah if you need one buy it if you don’t just don’t buy it yeah all that well you know I think that was real I think that they were putting their purpose out to the world what that does however is probably generate a lot of business because people who identify with planetary sustainability is I’d

rather buy the Patagonia jacket right so it ends up being a great marketing claim but I don’t think they only did it for that reason I think they took a courageous step it’s saying we’re gonna put this out first in the forefront of what we do we’ll take what we get for that and but I do think of a smart business at the same time in today’s marketplace there’s so many with many products so many places you can buy it you know so many different brands you can choose from you know and I think more and more people study

sort of the feeling of a brand a brand is not just a logo it’s an energy yeah when you see the Nike swoosh there’s a unconscious and conscious feeling from that one symbol it’s an energy to Nike bigger than Nike you know it goes out into the world and different brands evoke different responses and so I think more and more people are looking for doing business with brands they resonate with say companies have to get clear about what that is so I think we look at purpose at the feeling of the company right now I’ve

been into bicycles you know and so I read about these different bikes and the bikes are often have the same type of components and they’re in the same price range yeah and but you’re looking at the the drivetrain and the braking system and the suspension and all that other stuff and you read in like okay what’s the difference between this company and this company in this company and all that so what I’ll often do so I’ll go in and Google the company and then I’ll read about the company and the company

history and all that and I started getting a feeling of that company yeah and so I’ll end up buying something that product which seems to be equally you know on paper I’ll probably buy it from the company that are resonate most with so that’s another reason to put heart into what companies do use do you want to really put your purpose out there but all those things I think will change business and I think that this whole notion of competition will go through a major metaphor for some offices in your

lifetimes I think you know down the road business will be very different right now I don’t that feel threatening any leaders it is you know but I think we’ve fallen into the trap over the last say 15 years or so to where what’s most important is the quarterly profit sheet you know driven by the stock exchange and feeling is we don’t have the right stock exchange numbers and the right valuation all that will lose their jobs and that threat has to go away it can’t just be back to quarterly profits and I

do think companies will reach a point as well to where enough is enough I mean why does the company always have to see an increase in sales when is there enough sales that the company is highly successful in providing if the products and services that they want and having the employees taking care of like they want to why do they need more why do they have to hurt something or somebody to get more and I think those thoughts are starting to change it didn’t have to be that way when it’s big and when it’s big big enough I don’t

know I think it’s an interesting question for us to ask as leaders when it’s big big enough I was talking to some of my partners here in Europe yesterday and talking about you know always wanting to see growth not bad but our growth should be based upon whether it’s providing more happiness and fulfillment or not if the growing becomes too stressful then it’s probably not worth it if it’s taking away from the quality of our life is it worth it if it’s growing because it feels right and because we’re getting more more

enjoyment out of the growth and that’s a really good thing but I don’t want it to only be about growth in any cost you know there should be some some measurement of the cost of growth built in the business models if you could give one advice to leaders and theirs what would it be well simply said you know learn to listen to and follow your heart don’t see it as inappropriate in business it’s not learn to trust it because it’ll never let you down it’ll always lead to the right situation and the right decision if you really go that

way you’ll have to experiment with that to prove it to yourself don’t take it just from me but to me when you open your heart that way and begin to manifest those qualities it may look like it’s it’s out of context for business but it isn’t you know it’s the next level of business so just learn to listen to and follow your heart trust it tune into it listen to what it has to say and then act on that and over time if your experience has been like mine you’ll see that that Lisa nothing but more productivity nothing moving but more

success in business and in life thank you my pleasure thank you for having me [Music] you [Music]